Regarding recent class changes

[Sleeky]

Originally Posted by Iranium

I'm saying it's the way the world works, the movie industry is very similar for instance. Besides you can't compare today's gaming industry with back when arcades first appeared. Back then, there weren't predefined genres and boundaries, almost everything was innovative. Also, there's a limit to the amount of creativity the world has to offer. We've reached a point where we're mostly just reinventing existing innovations, trying to make improvements.

So this is it huh? This is the best it's ever gonna get?

Maybe you're right. Perhaps I should just pack it in.

[Iranium]

Originally Posted by Sleeky

So this is it huh? This is the best it's ever gonna get?

Maybe you're right. Perhaps I should just pack it in.

No! Don't be a pessimist like that old fart. He would lead to believe the best that ever was would be his shitty MUD. AoC is going to rock the casbah, and it will most definitely without a doubt be better than any previous MMO you or I have played.

[Torr]

Originally Posted by Iranium

I'm saying it's the way the world works, the movie industry is very similar for instance. Besides you can't compare today's gaming industry with back when arcades first appeared. Back then, there weren't predefined genres and boundaries, almost everything was innovative. Also, there's a limit to the amount of creativity the world has to offer. We've reached a point where we're mostly just reinventing existing innovations, trying to make improvements.

If you agree with this man and his downward spiral logic, you would be wasting your time waiting for AoC. Because it will only be worst than your previous MMO experience, and it will be designed for retards.

His logic is too broad, but it's not a downward spiral, more than it is his opinion on what we need to do to keep the genre progressing. And it's absolutely true, the first MMORPG that truly held my attention still feels like the best to me, and I still compare others that have come after it. And newbies don't equal retards. But what he's saying is, developers are starting to develop based on what people say they want. Good idea, right? Wrong... people don't always know what's best for them, and the same things they clamor for that must be in thier game will be the same reasons they get bored of the game and leave. The games that I view as the best in my eyes have always been the games that do NOT just copy. You want to say there are no innovations left, but to me that makes you the pessimist, not him. If you think the MMORPG industry is at the same place movies and TV are at, to me that's pessimistic. It's the Blizzard theory on MMORPG design... just improve upon what's come before. Perhaps in an old genre like literature everything is simply a rehashing of stories done before, but certainly we're not at the point where MMORPGs can't be better?

I may indeed be wasting my time on AoC, but we'll see if they can master the new console-style MMORPG combat and the RTS elements that have yet to be done right in an MMORPG (that includes Shadowwbane). If they do, then they will have moved the genre in a better direction. But if it doesn't work out for me, I'll move on to WAR... becase it's RvR combat based on the first game I truly enjoyed, DAoC... and there you go, right back to my roots again.

[Iranium]

Originally Posted by Torr

but certainly we're not at the point where MMORPGs can't be better?

That's what HE's saying, not me.

If you think some of today's offerings are garbage, just you wait…

[Torr]

Originally Posted by Iranium

That's what HE's saying, not me.

He's saying that we need to innovate to break the cycle of imitation. You're saying everything is fine and no innovation is needed. He's saying MMORPGs need to be better, and you're saying like movies everything has been done and MMORPGs cannot get better. If games follow the same path as movies, indeed there WILL be alot more garbage to come.

To me it sounds like YOU are the one saying MMORPGs can't get better? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying? You are calling him pessimistic because he doesn't like the way MMORPGs are headed, so he offers potential solutions. You believe you are more... optimistic... because you like the status quo, and don't feel like anything is wrong.

I guess it all depends on how you look at it. For those who think MMORPGs are as good as they get and we should just keep making them the same way, I suppose we shouldn't even make new ones anymore. If everything has been done, why bother? My opinion is closer to his than yours, so that's probably why I don't see your point. I think the "acceptable cowardice" that companies must stomach in order to get a game made is negative, but if you are happy with the way games are right now than to you the current situation is positive. I doubt we can change each other's mind at this point.